As some of you may know, I graduated with my Master’s from the University of Southern California (USC) last year. I have some blog posts coming up about my time there because I was fortunate enough to make so many new friends and connect with different staff and faculty. Of course, there are people who stand out to me because they have a genuine care in what I do and acknowledge my potential. One of my professors, who also happens to be a very successful podcaster and PR professional, is Anika Jackson. I had the pleasure of being her student twice in the program, and I learned a lot from her, but I genuinely appreciate her support to not just me but so many students in my program. She is also the main motivator for why I finally launched CHIP Conversations after so many years, and we talk about that, her non-linear career progression, the power of an educator, prioritizing accessibility, Asian/Thai Heritage, and so much more! You can watch the interview on YouTube or read the interview below! Before you continue, don’t forget to follow on YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook for more lifestyle content and future episodes like this!
Introduction and Non-linear Career Progression
Tagan: Professor Jackson, thank you so much for being here today. Before we get started, can you please introduce yourself?
Anika: I am a professor, part-time, but as close to full-time as possible at USC Annenberg, teaching across the MSc in digital media management. And now I have a podcast curriculum launching for the MSc in digital social media in the fall, thank you. I also have a podcast at USC called Mediascape, Insights from Digital Changemakers. And then my brand is Your Brand Amplified, which is a marketing, PR, and brand consultancy, as well as a podcast. On the side of all of that, I find my intersection focused on podcasting, being a professor, technology, and amplifying people’s brands. So I do a lot with AI, really invested in learning the latest tools and how they can be used for good and used appropriately to advance our work, but not to replace us.
Tagan: Before I continue, I do want to say I think something at USC that I learned was AI is not going to replace you, it’s the people who know how to use AI. And I think that was also something that we talked about in class, because obviously, I met you because you’re my professor, fortunately, two times. And we’ll talk about that in a bit. But I kind of want to talk a little bit about what you just mentioned, because you have an impressive resume with so many different experiences. And in class, that’s what I really appreciate because you bring this real-world experience in every lesson. Is there anything that might have surprised, people might be surprised about in your career as a professional podcaster, but also in any of the experiences that you’ve had?
Anika Jackson: Wow. Yes. So I think my career has been non-linear, which can scare some people. But I think it also, that’s why I always level set when we start classes, because I want people to realize you can have stops and starts to your career. And that doesn’t mean that you won’t have a great career. You can try different things. And I think sometimes we get scared of the unknown, but that’s something I’ve always been really good at, which is also maybe it’s a positive and a negative that I’ve always been willing to iterate and experience and just jump in with my feet first. Probably one of the most surprising things about my career that people would think, something that you know, right, is that I started out as a club promoter. And so I learned everything organically. Started out promoting DJs, throwing raves. I was in an old magazine called Details when they did a series called Rave Across America, because my then-boyfriend, when I was 18, was the person throwing all the parties in Kansas City. And so out of that birthed all of my experience, my interest in really getting people together, bringing them together, and finding ways to celebrate together, whether it’s a person, a brand, a product, a service, a give back, a nonprofit, whatever it is. And that core value, I think, has resonated for all of my different endeavors. The only other thing I would say is that I had a social club and a retail store. And when I lived in Houston, right before I went back to LA, we started my PR career.
Tagan: I remember the intro classes, like the first slide deck kind of thing, but I forgot that you were a club promoter until you mentioned the magazine brand and everything like that. But that’s incredible, from raves to USC lectures.
Anika: And then in terms of the podcast, what I think a lot of successful podcasts have is a season, they have a through line. And so I do have a through line, but it’s a little different. I don’t say, OK, this season, we’re going to focus on just public relations or just SEO or just brand. It’s not as fun for me, and I want to have great organic conversations. And I feel like every conversation happens exactly when it’s supposed to with that guest. Sometimes that means a guest has booked a year in advance. Sometimes that means they’ve found a spot and been able to get on in a couple of weeks. But whenever that conversation happens, it truly is something I needed to hear. And if it’s something I needed to hear at that moment, it’s probably something my audience needed to hear.
Tagan: The way that you talked about your guests and the amount of work that you put in, especially in terms of not only producing the content and the podcast, but also how you get it out in different channels. How do you promote it? And there’s so much work that goes on. And I think nowadays, I think a lot of people do have access to podcast equipment, and they would say they have a podcast. Maybe they shouldn’t. Realistically, the possibilities are endless. But for you, I just wanted to talk about it because there is a lot that you do, and there is something that sets you apart. And the fact that, you know, you’re doing this and now you’re introducing it as a course at USC, that just kind of goes to show. And especially with, you know, being a student of yours in the master’s program for digital media management, that also aligns with that. So I do want to say that’s incredible work you do.
Anika: Thank you.
Tagan: Professor Jackson, I also want to mention that, for people who don’t know, CHIP Conversations was one of my options for my capstone project. But this project came about from your class. It’s something that, like, I’ve always wanted to do throughout my years. And similar to what you just said about how these conversations happen naturally, I’ve met so many people in so many different careers, you know, one of them was a barber who used to cut for the Toronto Raptors. He, before that, was discriminated against in different places until he found his own lane, and he, you know, through connections and all that stuff. And he told me, back when I was younger, that I wanted to do this series. He’s like, yeah, I’ll sit down with you. But unfortunately, he passed away a few years later, and we never got that conversation. So when I was in your class and we were talking about different projects, CHIP Conversations, I’m like, you know what? I’m going to do this, regardless of whatever it is, and you inspired me for this. So, I want to say thank you first and foremost for that.
Role of an Educator
Tagan: And I just also want to say thank you for being a great professor. People don’t realize the important role an educator has. And someone like myself, I’ve taught in university classes as well, but I’ve more so facilitated, and I’m fortunate enough for that. You have a serious impact. You have a great motivation for students, whether you believe it or not. And I do want to get your insight and opinion, what’s the mindset you have as an educator or as a professor?
Anika: Thank you. You’re going to make me cry. So I’m inspired when I hear things like that. Really, that’s It’s funny because the way that I started my teaching career is, I think, pretty unusual. I had a PR firm during the pandemic. I mean, just to flesh out the story a little bit further, when I moved back to Los Angeles in 2019, I had a business in Houston. We just moved into a bigger space. We were kind of an incubator for entrepreneurs who had a product or a service, but they also had a full-time job. So we were a safe space where they paid under market rate to have their own display area. And then they helped. Everybody had to work a few hours in the store. And it was a really interesting experience, but a lot of brands got their starts there in Houston. And with that, we also had a social club. If you live in a city like Houston, that’s a small town in a big city, it’s very insular. And if you don’t know people, you don’t know how to break in if they don’t help you. And I was lucky enough to know somebody who introduced me to somebody, who introduced me to people, got me involved in her organization. And then when somebody else found out I was half Asian, I was welcomed into the Asian community. And so I had these inroads.
I also had this experience that I brought, where I naturally want to just dive in and meet people. But a lot of people aren’t like that. They’re introverted, they don’t know where to start. So that was the impetus behind starting the social club. And when I really think about it, that ties in really well with how I teach, because students come from different perspectives. Some are coming straight from undergrad, some have no or very little work experience, and some have not really done anything in the world of digital. And others have more experience and are trying to further their careers. And I want to make sure that each person feels seen, heard, and valued for who they are, but that I can also be part of their journey. And so going back to, you know, moved here, had that store experience. I just thought about that tie-in to that connection right now. I’ll be all connected.
But I also had an experience where I came back to LA, and I thought I was coming back under slightly different circumstances, and I ended up having no money, not having the help that I thought I was going to get. And I had to go on food stamps. And it took me about six months to find really steady work. I was out there doing all the things that everybody does, sending out lots of resumes, getting interviews, but I wasn’t enough of a specialist in one area. The other thing about having such diverse experience is you might not have that specific thing. You might have enough knowledge about it, right? But they want somebody who is only gonna focus on that one area. Because they’re probably also afraid you might leave if you’re not doing a whole bunch of different things, which does happen as well.
And then during the pandemic, I started getting lots of clients, like right before and in the pandemic, and client after client after client. So then I staffed a team, and then I had a PR firm. And because I primarily work with minority entrepreneurs and social good, and women entrepreneurs, Boston University reached out to me completely cold via LinkedIn because they were looking to diversify their professors of practice. They wanted people who weren’t just from the Northeast, who didn’t just, you know, weren’t just a certain type of person, Caucasian, middle-aged, and who could bring this experience. And they do place a lot of emphasis on diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging at Boston University. So I was like, wow, this is so cool. My dad was a professor. I didn’t think this would be open to me, but I went through the first interview, and I really didn’t know what I was doing. It’s a whole new world. But luckily I had a mentor at USC, Freddy Nager, who is the Associate Director of the Digital Social Media Master’s. And he had me guest lecture for a class, and then he liked the way I presented. So then he helped me get into teaching. He helped me find a class that I would be able to teach. And honestly, I don’t know if I should say this, but it was the easiest interview I’ve ever had. I had a great interview with Fred Cook, who is very well known at Annenberg. And he said, OK, I’ll have Annie call you the next day. I thought that would mean having a whole other series of interviews. And instead, they just hired me.
So I started out in the master’s in PR and advertising side, teaching PR and branding and other classes, and then quickly found my space, right? I was kind of thrown into how to create my own syllabus. It’s a little different for the digital media management program. But through that, I learned that I really loved connecting with students, finding out what made them tick, what they wanted to, and seeing how I could help them achieve their goals. And that is what continues to inspire me. You shared what you shared, seeing students post on LinkedIn this week, several students posted about their experiences, and that’s the best thing that you can do for a professor is give us that feedback. And it’s not just a job. It’s something I’m really passionate about. It’s something I’m really invested in. It brings me a lot of joy to see the changes that happen in students, to see them have more belief in themselves and what they want to pursue and realize, wow, I actually do have this skill set, even though I didn’t think I did. And that’s what it brings it all back to.
Tagan: Wow. Firstly, I just want to say thank you for opening up about the whole story and everything like that. That’s incredible. And it relates to CHIP because you’re challenging hardships, and you get these new perspectives. And it’s crazy how your story has so many different layers to it, but it’s all kind of weaved together and interconnected. The other thing I want to tell you, Professor Jackson, is that the reason why I appreciate you so much is because, yes, passion is evident, skill set is evident, but you have genuine care for your students, and you want them to succeed, like that’s evident. You actually take the time out of your busy schedule to make sure you’re responding to people. You ask people in the beginning class after class, you know, for insight. And most of all, you take feedback. Like I’ve seen it like from class one to two, how different it is, right? And I just want to say, like, regardless of where you are in your career, sometimes it’s hard for people, but the fact that you do it is incredible. So, thank you for that.
Asian (Thai) Heritage
Tagan: Something that you mentioned earlier was that you are half Asian. And I remember in class, you talked about LINE. And I’m like, as soon as you said that, I’m like, I know that’s like a Thai thing. And then you’re talking about your Thai heritage. So I kind of want to talk a bit more about that. And because we are recording this on commencement day at USC, but also Asian Heritage Month, and in America, it’s Asian American Pacific Islander Heritage Month. So I kind of want to talk to you, though, if you can.
Anika: Yeah, well, my mom came over from Thailand to Chico State in Chico, California, which is known as a teaching institution, because her mom had a private school in Thailand. So my mom was supposed to come here, get her education, go back, and run the school. Instead, of course, she met my dad, who was also in the teaching field. He was an educator. And they ended up in Kansas, of all places. So I was raised there when my mom was at Kansas University for her master’s program. There was a good Thai community, but also because she was an immigrant, unlike a lot of immigrants, or I guess it’s about half and half, probably, right? You have the experience where either people, your family, will only speak to you in your native language, or they won’t speak to you at all in your native language because everybody’s trying to learn English and assimilate. So she didn’t, we didn’t grow up learning Thai, which is, you know, very sad to me.
I’m not just Thai, I’m actually Thai and Laotian. And that side is actually where our last name comes from. And we have a whole rich heritage there that I’m still learning about and discovering. But it’s something that’s become more and more important to me. I know when you’re younger, sometimes you just want to fit in with everybody, especially if you don’t see anybody who looks like you. They don’t speak the same language, they don’t have the same customs, they don’t maybe understand in my case, Buddhism and our holidays. You get older and you start appreciating it again. Now I have dual citizenship. When I go to Thailand, I feel like I’m at home. And when I come back to the United States, yes, this is where I was born, but it doesn’t feel the same. And part of that is the times we’re living in. But it’s also, I can go back to a place where I’m welcomed by most people, where I have a very, very rich family history that I’m really proud of that involves a lot of legacy and people standing up for what’s right and royalty and just a lot of different through lines and great rich stories that I get and that I can be really proud of.
And I love the fact that it also opens your eyes to experiences of. Why, if in your home country, you can go to the pharmacy, say, these are my symptoms, the pharmacist will get you a medicine right away. It’s going to be the same thing you would have gotten in the States, but it’s going to be so much less expensive. You can go to doctors more easily. Food is less expensive, and it’s healthy, and it’s not full of preservatives, and it’s cooked right there fresh. All of these different things just open your eyes to the reality that we live in. If you are those listeners who are in the United States or even perhaps Canada, it just really enriches your perspective. And I think that also makes you more open to understanding other people’s perspectives.
Tagan: And that’s a big thing I was going to touch upon, the fact of the perspectives. And I love that you talked about being a kid of immigrants. And that kind of ties back to my first episode with Mathusan. It’s interesting now, I’m like trying to learn more about my heritage and, you know, appreciate it. And it’s interesting because being Asian has so many different layers, right? Do you know where exactly in Thailand your parents, your mom is from?
Anika: Yeah. So she’s from Khon Kaen which is Northeast Thailand, close to the border of Laos, part of Laos. Laos, we’re from Vientiane. And my great-grandmother was a princess. So this is pre-communism, pre-revolution. I recently met some of my family on that side for the first time when my daughter and I were traveling on the East Coast, looking at universities, and they live in New Haven. And they were talking about the experience. And I found out that, you know, my mom’s cousin, who, of course, in our culture, I would say my uncle, was living there at the time when the war was happening. And he would take kids and hide them under his house ’cause he lived on farmland. And so he would take kids from the city and hide them so that they wouldn’t be taken, I don’t want to say, but you know, women and children were not treated well. They were seen as if these are not people. These are things that we can just do whatever we want with and then throw away. So that’s part of his experience before he came over. And to hear these stories, I would have had no idea. And so then again, that continues to enrich my heritage, my knowledge. and where I came from. And I think that’s also important.
I also have a little statue in my house. I also have a relative called Lady Mo, who’s from Korat. And her husband, I mean, she’s a great, great, great, who knows how many times, grandmother. This is in the, I believe, 1700s even. And her husband was the governor, I guess, of the region. And he was away, meeting with all the other governors. And people who ran different parts of Thailand and Laotian soldiers came and invaded and she was able to get the people to stay calm. And she made a plan and then they were able to get this, like chase the soldiers away. And this is, so it’s those kinds of stories that you hear that go, wow, how does that, how do I use that to keep me inspired to do better, to do more, to see what other ways I can impact the world? And so those are really cool. We have a family temple in Khon Kaen. What’s traditional is that families will sponsor one house for a few of the monks, different houses. And our family’s one of the only ones who’s been keeping that up over the last 100 years. And so I got the chance, I’ve gotten the chance to go visit with the monks. in that home and talk to them, see what changes we’ve made to make their lives easier and better because they have these lives of poverty. They have cell phones and a few things, but they don’t, they can’t buy their own food. There’s so many things they can’t do. So they need to have a nice place to sleep at least and to be able to take. visitors to meditate and to do chants and do ceremonies with.
On the Thai side, we’re also related to two of the past kings. And our Thai last name, which is not, Chaisiri is my mom’s last name. Papatanan is our Thai last name. And that came out of when the kings first started giving because people didn’t go by, didn’t have last names for a long time. When the king gave out last names, our family was one of the first to get a last name. And Papatanan is literally like, in charge of, he was the treasurer.
Tagan: Just A callback to what I said earlier, I’m always learning something new, but you know, first and foremost, like royalty. And then the fact of the matter is that, you know, you have this connection where it’s like, even if it’s not linear, parents are educators. And then talking about your uncle, you know, how it was, you know, helping children and women. similar to what you’re doing right now.
Prioritizing Accessibility & Inclusion
Tagan: I also want to mention, like, another thing I learned from you was just like the power of accessibility. The reason why I think I did well, like, and then got accepted like Phi Kappa Phi and all that stuff, like the Honor Society, was because. I think it’s because I value my education, and that was the thing that I learned through hardships from being kicked out of my undergrad to getting a second chance, double or nothing. And from you, I learned about accessibility. I learned about, you know, content creation. I learned about storytelling, and it changed my whole perspective, even the way I do content. And now I’m like, I’m always doing captions. Even when I’m doing the UGC deals, sometimes they don’t ask for that. But I’m like, no, I want to do it because of accessibility. And I understand my privilege for that. And I wanted to talk to you about that because you were the one who highlighted that and changed that. So, can I get your opinion as well about that and the power of being considerate of others and prioritizing accessibility in any digital content?
Anika: I’m really glad that you brought this up because I find that a lot of students don’t think about it. It’s not the first thing that comes to mind. We can see, we can hear, we don’t have these different challenges. We might have other challenges that maybe people can’t understand just by looking at us, right? But 20%, well, it’s like 18 point something percent of Americans, at least in the United States, right? have some kind of impairment. That is a huge part of the population that we are discounting. That is a lot of buying power. It’s a lot of people who just want to be seen, heard, and valued. It’s people who will spend money and be very loyal to your brand if you are loyal to them. They don’t want special treatment. They just want the treatment we should be giving everybody, as you mentioned. It’s not hard. It doesn’t take up that much more time to add captions, to add alt text, to think about colors and what fonts you’re using. But it’s not first and foremost. We’re thinking, oh, how do I get this next hit, right? How do I make sure that this piece of content looks this way?
And I’ve learned from speaking to people. I mean, this past year, even on my podcast, I’ve had somebody with Tourette’s. I’ve had somebody who is autistic, high functioning, and has created a whole YouTube channel to monetize his platform and talk about how exercise has helped him, right? Another person who’s known as the blind blogger. And I love having guests who have different abilities. I’ve even had somebody who was born a quadriplegic. And so these are all different scenarios, but they help us, they help again, broaden our perspectives and help us remember that there are other people in the world beyond the kind of people that we are. And if we do treat them with respect and as humans, right, and just tweak our tools a little bit, then it’s much richer. We’re offering them an opportunity to be part of the conversation. We’re inviting them in, and what a good feeling that is. When you’re invited into something. So I’m really glad that you brought that up.
Tagan: It’s a privilege. And now, like, it’s interesting because even if it’s in English, I’m still looking at the captions. Like I’m so in tune to that. It’s all the different perspectives, right? And understanding privilege and you pretty much highlighted the power digital equity has.
Conclusion
Tagan: And I do want to ask before I let you go, is there anything else that you have lined up for you, and anything else that you want to share?
Anika: Oh gosh, yes. So I have also, well, one thing is my podcast, even since you were my student, has grown exponentially. I’m on the Apple charts now in multiple countries, where it’s between like 90 and 105,000 listeners a month. It’s just, it’s grown so much and I’m so, I feel so blessed that I get to have amazing guests on and share their knowledge, much like what you’re doing with your platform, right? And so I hope to continue using my voice. I have to continue expanding what I’m doing in the podcast world. I really want people to be set up for success. I have new monetization. I have new things that you and I should have a conversation about for growth strategies and all these other kinds of things that will help people. Yes, I do have some new things.
I’m also now executive director of the ICL Foundation, which helps fund students for the ICL Academy. We’re an online private school for 5th through 12th grade. Our students are athletes, singers, songwriters, actors, artists, or maybe they just want to travel the world with their families and can’t go to a regular school. We instill civic leadership values, and so it’s very closely aligned with my values, and that’s why I’m there. Our students are not just wealthy. A lot of them are in scholarship, because just because you have a talent doesn’t mean you have the funds to support that, right? But we want them to be champions, not just on the field or on the stage, but also in their lives, to understand the power of giving back, that power of community, how they need to have social and emotional intelligence to move through the world. And so with that, we do have this Champion Mentor program where we have Olympians, pro athletes, people like that come speak to our students virtually. I’m turning that because I’m also studying AI right now with my MBA, because I’m also back in school.
Tagan: I know, I saw that. I was like, wait, what?
Anika: Yeah, I am creating my custom large language model for the Champion Mentor project to create digital avatars of our champion mentors, and have our students be able to have conversations and their hope is to roll this out. So I’m really working on that right now. Some other AI tools and consulting. I’m doing a lot of PR, podcasting, consulting, and then of course, getting my daughter off to figure out where she’s going to go to school. I’m always interested in diving into things and really learning them for myself and trying them for myself so that I’m better at helping others learn them.
Tagan: Honestly, Prof, you’re always up to doing something cool.
Anika: Thank you.
Tagan: And it’s incredible because it’s not just like, okay, yeah, like I’m doing it. This sounds cool. This sounds innovative. It’s more so also, you’re having someone else’s, how does this improve someone’s well-being? You know, how do you make a positive impact? And these are like core values to you, and also core values to me that I appreciate. And that’s why I admire you. And that’s why I really wanted to make sure you were going to be on this podcast, web series, regardless. I do want to say thank you so much for your time today. It really does mean a lot to me. And I know that there’s so much value and insight that you just provided on so many different levels. And I really hope that you had a great time too. So, thank you so much for this. And yeah, really appreciate you.
Anika: Oh, it was an honor to be asked. So thank you, Tagan, for having me on your podcast, your show, and believing that you know I have something to offer your audience.
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